SubLab potential phase issue

I’ve turned on the option to reset phase on note and it does not seem to work. Upon inspection through oscilloscope there is still phase drifting which should be fixed by the reset option and it is not fixed. Any ideas?

Let us have a look here, the thing to remember is that the phase will only reset when the note has finished. The note is finished when all envelopes have completed. Let me know if this makes sense…I’ve commited to putting together a small help document which we will try and put together in time for the release of the next version.

Thanks,
Gavin.

please fix the phase reset issue

if it doesn’t reset just say that please, instead of blagging people for years who have paid you money .

it doesn’t work , remove the option and give people their money back if you aren’'t able to make it work , please

its sub bass , the phase needs to reset if you want it to , sublab is supposed to do this , it doesn’t , it is broken .

I’ve been struggling with this issue as well. Makes no sense to me why two of the exact same notes played back to back would have completely flipped waveforms. Creates so many low-end phase issues that makes the plug-in almost unusable. It is nearly impossible to layer SubLab with another kick without going note by note through the entire song checking for phase issues

Hey guys,

I’ve looked into it here and phase reset it working as expected. I’m added some image below from a bounce out of Logic Pro X.

  1. Below is an image of two notes of the same pitch played one after each other. The setting is
    “Note Setting > Reset phase on new note on: Yes”. The thing to observe here is that if the first note has fully finished, then when the next note is played, the phase of the triangle wave starts back again at zero.

  1. This second is the same midi file, played with extended release time, where the notes don’t release fully before the new note is played. In this case, the phase is not reset. Why would you do this? If you were to reset the phase, then it would obviously cause a click, as the phase would immediately reset to zero when the new note comes in, while the envelope was still in doing its thing.

Does this make sense? Also are people seeing the same thing? I am totally open to investigating any issues that you can highlight. I’d first make sure that you have the settings I outlined above (“Note Setting > Reset phase on new note on: Yes” ) and also that you have the latest version of SubLab installed.

One possible thing @tichomn, it what we can call “hard reset”. This would mean that irregardless, when ever a new note comes in the phase is reset. This will cause clicks though so I am not sure if it is suitable.

Thanks for looking into this. In my opinion I feel like the “reset phase on new note” option should reset the phase regardless of whether or not the note is fully finished. For me personally - I’d rather deal with clicks & pops using iZotope De-Click or something than have to go note by note throughout the song checking the phase with the kick.

It’s just very difficult to have a track with varying note lengths for this reason. I deal with random phase issues almost every time I bounce down a track with SubLab in it. Really have to get tedious with bouncing to audio & inverting individual waveforms to fix this, unless there’s something I’m missing and you had a better way of handling this in mind!

I have to agree with the critics above. A phase reset when the note has finished is not what I would intuitively expect. At least we need an option with a reset at the beginning of a note (even if there will be potential clicks).
You could provide both options (with a hint in the manual to make this issue conscient to the user) and let the user decide what’s best for him. A further hint for the user could also be: When you experience clicks at the beginning of a note, experiment a little with the length of the previous note to prevent the click.
To technically adress the potential click in the plugin at the beginning of a new note I could imagine the implementation of a kind of small crossover, maybe combined with a minimal look ahead time to minimize the click somehow.
For me at least it would make Sublab much more usable, as my Sub “melodies” will potentially overlap and it’s way harder to alining the phase to the kick than to handle clicks.
I see the possibility of reproduceable, permanent and (foremost) predictable phase alignment as a big feature of this plugin if decently achieved.
Thanks,
Rui

@Rui what I’ll do is add what we can call from here on in “Hard Reset”, that means the ADSR will reset on a new note regardless.

I’ll implement this as either a standalone setting or a mode that happens when both “reset adsr level” and “reset phase on new note” are enabled. How does this sound?

Thanks,
Gavin.

Hey Gavin,
nice to see that you are open to new ideas. Thanks therefore already.

I’m not sure if the standalone “hard reset” is necessary as only the combination is important, as far as I can see:
I need a reliable phase behaviour (phase reset), but do I need it at the beginning or at the end of a note? → check the respective box!

Is there further the possibility to also sync the modulation(s) to the beginning of a new note? The Waveform is slightly moving (e. g. in a 1-bar loop) and I suppose it’s because of modulation going on. The idea is to get a consistent waveform everytime you play the same note (like you get from a sample waveform).

Maybe you could also add a kind of pre-delay (w. a range of e. g. +/-12ms, ~1 wavelenght, depending on how low you want to go) to make the phase alignment possible within the plugin itself (so you don’t need to render the track and use the track-delay for the phase alignment. :slight_smile: )

Hope you like the ideas and I’m looking forward to see what will happen.
Thanks,
Rui

Hey again,

I’m not sure if I got you right. You mean you want to drop the option of “reset when note ends” and keep the “reset on beginning of a note” only?

If you can solve the “clicks & pops” issue completely, I think it’s then the only option needed, yes.

Thanks,
Rui

Pretty she he can’t just “solve” the clicks and pops issues, it’s apart of the nature of abruptly halting phase precisely when you specify.

My main issue with this was just the simple matter of it being incorrectly labeled.
On one hand I understand why it was implemented, to prevent perhaps new inexperienced music makers from experiencing this strange click issue, however the cost comes at a more subtle hard to detect issue. Sure the newer music makers wont notice phase issues most likely but when they get to a level when they may understand a thing or two, they now have to deal with a strange issue related to their music with no clear indication where it is coming from. Sure having clicks is a pain but at least it’s a clear issue and you can figure out ways to deal with it immediately. Instead of infecting all the songs of music makers with subtle phase issues when you don’t need to AND especially when they thought that be selecting a certain menu option they wouldn’t have issues.

Hey @cjwovg,

That is a fair point and exactly what we were thinking also.

We’re about to release a new version with the “hard reset” mode, enable when you have “Reset ADSR Level On New Note” and “Reset Phase on new note” both set to “YES”.

I’ll let you know here when it is ready to test. I’ve attached an image below, where you can see the hard reset of the phase. There is a click but as you say, that is the nature of what happens when you suddenly go from 1 to 0 abruptly. Depending on the rest of your track it may or may be audible.

I am a fresh new user and for a new song I exactly need a sub-bass monster like this. But it is very frustrating to find out it just does not work as expected.

A screenshot from Studio One. I converted it to an audio-track to make waveforms visible. The “pink bar” is the actually played note. You can see

  • 9 and 10 are triggering exactly the same note, same velocity
  • but on 10 you can see after 1 second it becomes less in volume, as if it fades out

I was just using the default preset and turned on the x-sub. You can see the volume-drop also in the SubLabs volume-meter. Most notes hit hard straight on -2dB like expected, but occasionally they drop/fade down to -10dB, so I guess this is one of those phase-issues I read about?

It is with 1.1.6 and 1.1.7, no matter which options I switch to yes or no. As soon as Sinus-Synth and X-Sub act together, it happens on one or the other note. Any trick I can try to avoid it? :frowning:

Hey @deesen,

Can you confirm the build date of your plugin? You can do this by checking the about page…the latest beta version with hard reset is 1.1.7 Beta 3 and will have a build date of 16th of March.

Also please confirm you have the following settings:

Hi Gavin,

I am using 1.1.7 (R436) of March 15th. I tried to find latest Beta and got this one.

And I can confirm both settings are set to YES, but the issue remains.